Signal Boost: Signal Boost: Stitch's Media Mix

[shy_magpie]

isabellerecs posted: Signal Boost: Stitch's Media Mix

Queer-Coding, Bad-Bat-Takes, And Why The Joker Isn’t That Important to Batman

I never realized how much I merely tolerate Joker as a means to get to Harley Quinn. Every time I tried to come up with a Batman-Joker interaction that refuted anything said in this essay or was even actually interesting to me I came up with Batman having a complicated emotion about Harley. On the plus side, I am no longer getting my Batman content by watching the animated series after school so I can simply read comics that have Harley but not Joker. Always weird coming across stuff about a series I used to be really into, especially since this was one of those "fan but not in the fandom" things where I keep forgetting that I'm not in middle school and I can talk to people other than my indulgent older brother about it.

Back to the essay itself, my only quibble is that I think of Joker more performing queerness because its a way to make people uncomfortable than as a character who sees sex and love as anything other than a power play (and not the fun kind). I spent a chunk of middle school obsessed with the Batman Superman adventures so I hope I can be forgiven an essay pulled out of my...memory of that show and the few comics I've read. In the cartoon anyway Joker broke Harley more or less for the lulz and lost interest in the game once he was sure of his control. He calls people darling and makes passes at men when he wants to unsettle them or hint at his power ("you can't stop me" being more important than the actual implication of sexual harassment/rape). If we are to see his sexuality as a dark mirror of Batman it is in that neither Bruce nor his alter ego even seem comfortable with power imbalances in a romantic relationship(except possibly the fun kind, he wears too much leather and likes Catwoman too much to ignore the possibility). I can't see him even flirting without making it clear that he was fine with a no. Consider two he is most often shipped with: Catwoman caught his interest by besting him without actually crossing his moral lines (his attempts to stop her usually being perfunctory or more of a game than a real objection to her actions), and Superman is one of very few outside of the Batfam he actually asks for help or seems to regard as his equal as a Superhero. In short, Joker strikes me as liking to fuck with people more than fuck people.

Comments

[shy_magpie]

PS Chaotic Evil characters like the Joker are really not as interesting as Miller, Didio, and co think. Of course villains break the rules and don't stick to a moral code, they're the baddies. Give me Lawful evil and its implied commentary on the law vs justice. Give me Thanos swallowing his own bullshit. Give me characters with their own morals who make me wonder where my own line is drawn. Don't just write "I'll do what I want when I want", add a clown gimmick and an ego and call it good writing. Reactions to the Joker were the most interesting things about his eps-don't @me!

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

I've got Gentleman Johnny Marcone. Self-professed monster (of the purely flesh and bone variety) and a viable maw-stick against bumps in the night. (The Dresden Files.)

[shy_magpie]

Another series I need to reread!

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Reread and/or "I've got Fic."

[shy_magpie]

As the kids say whynotboth.gif

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

I've read some pretty vintage Batman, I've watched Ceasar Romero's Joker (Burgess Meredith's Penguin...) I was cognizant of the Roman Circus of Robin Voting (talk about non-con, the whole geeksphere was locked in a scene). The Batman Lego Movie (which I've had recommended to me) scene might be micro-misogynist but I'm not seeing it as queer coded.

Yes, my internal Batman|Bruce Wayne groks the systemic power imbalance of his wealth, mass and training. I wish Marvel would grant Tony a less decaying grasp of his advantage. (Age of Ultron is tone-different to the Iron Man movies)

[shy_magpie]

Misogyny and homophobia are often intertwined especially as being effeminate is often considered the worst part of being gay by bigots. A certain amount of the queer coding is only apparent if you are aware of just how many things were considered 'gay' at the time.* Joker put a little effort into his appearance, wore lipstick, had expensive looking clothes that weren't for office work or formal dinners. Gasp he used hand gestures and called people darling. I'm turning 33 this week and while we aren't where we ought to be, we have come pretty far from the days of coining terms like "the man bag", "merse", and "metrosexual". *Of course you could have lived at the same time but around less obviously homophobic people. I wasn't around people who thought they judged gay men but for not judging they were awful concerned about not being seen as one. PDX isn't Utah but it isn't as utopian as some paint it.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

See, some of those things, especially the fancy clothes aren't auto-effeminate if one looks back-- the outer part of the Adam West Batman's Joker's suit is a zoot suit. Effeminate is hardly the word.

I've been writing m/m since last century, so I remember when "man bag" was very very tame--for that matter, when the ones in the '70s came into use it was because the double knit slacks were so tight you could read the washing instructions;)

I think class and ethnic issues have gotten shortened shrift- Men's clothing had a lot more color prior to the 1950s.

[shy_magpie]

It seems to go back and forth, plus I need to remember that just because my history lessons were censored doesn't mean that the past wasn't more varied than I envision it.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

As I had a tag over on tumblr, History was in Color.

https://historicallyaccuratesteve.tumblr.com has a lot of social history that's useful for understanding pre-Stonewall America.

It's not complete, and it is on hiatus (it's not mine, it's owner does still post here on DW)

I did do some labor and immigration history, and I'm from a rail town.

I will be learning what things to unlearn to the grave.

[shy_magpie]

Ooh thanks, I've been listening to Stuff You Missed In History Class but that podcast is more general grounding than specific topics

[shy_magpie]

Also you have a more interesting set of references than me, when I said man bag I was referring to the weather when whole sit com episodes were devoted to the premise that if a man owned a bag other than a brief case or luggage people would think he was gay ;)

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

I did clean that one up. I will warn you that sometimes my fic will trot out phraseology not checked for sensitivity-not because I'm trying to trigger anyone, but because it's both character apt and I've got another trusted character to drop on it like Steve on that dud grenade.

Briefcases used to be 'square' before Man from U.N.C.L.E made them hip and cool. Technically, man bags evolved from doop kits, so, luggage. (I just don't use doop generally because I cannot guess who does and doesn't know the word. And it's too close to other words.)

[shy_magpie]

It's the attitude implied by a society that thinks a male nurse is suspect or that getting a manicure makes your sexuality suspect. The words themselves are illustrative of the time.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Oh, I know. Quantum Leap was always baiting at that line, like when Sam didn't even think twice about going into a hair salon and then had to deal with a mob boss "aggravated interrogation".

Secretary. Piece of furniture, man that uses that furniture, woman chased around the steno pool, person that runs the world.

Used to be movies would have scenes of the muscle grooming their hands while they loitered between dealing out beatings. Then nearly the same bit of business became a queen bee receptionist shirking her duties visual marker.

[shy_magpie]

What they did to Starks character development is a large part of why in my head most of Civil War and Ultron are merged into a better movie about the team being divided over how to react to SHIELD falling and Cap protecting Bucky.

[peoriapeoriawhereart]

Yeah, I've smacked the "Apply Fanfic" button regarding Age of Ultimates and Iron Man 4.

My Tony Stark is getting professional help and not careening about loaded for bilgesnipe.